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What Roll Bar Works with what Miata
configuration? |
Click here for the
Boss Frog FAQ page.
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What roll bar works with the
newest Miata (MX-5) the 2006 and later?
Currently there are NO roll bars that can be added to the
newest MX-5s, and at this point as far as we know no one is working on
developing one either. The interior of the new Miata is so different that
some believe it may be impossible to ever add a bolt in roll bar.
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Special Note for SCCA Autocross
Many SCCA regions do not require a roll bar of any sort for Autocross
events. However, many regions require that if you equipment your Miata with
a roll bar it must meet the SCCA specs for roll bars to run in any of their
events.
Here is an example of what could happen. You arrive at an
SCCA Autocross event with a bar that does not meet SCCA specs, like the Hard
Dog Deuce, Sport or Extreme. Because it doesn't meet SCCA specs you can not
run. However, it you were to removed the bar (which would be very hard to do
on the spot) they would then let you run in the Autocross. (I know it seems
odd, but that is the way they run things.)
The bottom line is that is you ever plan to go near a track
with your Miata, you should get a roll bar that meets or exceeds the SCCA
specs for roll bars. Two excellent examples of bars the meet the SCCA specs
are the Boss Frog Double Hoop Roll Bar
and the Hard Dog Hard Core Bar.
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| Q) What is the difference
between a style bar and a roll bar?
A) As the names
implies, a style bar is just that, a bar with style. It offers
minimal protection in a roll over and could in fact even lead to
additional injuries. This is because style bars are generally
attached very superficially at only two points (generally bolted
only at the top of the seat belt tower - the Hard Bar is
different, but more on that later) and most will probably break off
at the attachment points and bend over, mouse trap style, if very
much force is placed on it.
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On the other hand a true roll bar will have additional
bracing to keep it from bending over or collapsing if lateral force is
applied. However, the additional bracing can make it somewhat harder to
build.
| Q) What is the difference
between the Hard Bar and other style bars?
A) The Hard Bar is sort
of a cross between a true roll bar and a style bar. The Hard Bar is not
only attached at the top of the seat belt tower, like style bars
are, but is also attached again down at the base of the wall behind
the seats for a total of four mounting points. This is as many
attachment points as some roll bars on the market. However, the Hard
Bar does not have the additional bracing (like the Sport and Core bars do)
needed to handle a great deal of lateral force and could bend in a
roll over. |
| Q) Will the Hard Dog restrict
the movement of either seat?
A) It depends. For
the Sport, not at all. With the Core the main vertical support can
hit the back of the seat towards the top if the seat is all the way
back and reclined a couple of notches. Generally this only becomes
an issue with people who are over 6-feet tall. I'm 6'1" and don't
have this problem. |
| Q) Are there any "true" roll
bars available that are double hooped like the style
bars?
A) Up until recently the answer was no. There are
now two bars available. Check out the Hard Dog
Deuce and the Boss Fog
Double Hoop Roll Bar. But beware, there is one style bar on the
market that looks like a real roll bar but it isn't. What it has is
diagonal bracing coming off the top of the hoops that go to flat
plates right over the gas tank. I'd hate to be in a Miata equipped
with one of these in a roll over because you would probably end up
with two holes punched in your gas tank. The last place I'd ever
want to be is upside down in a car with gasoline pouring over me. |
| Q) I see that I can use an M2 roll
bar without a diagonal in an M1 that has a rear glass window. But
what if I use an M2 with a Double Diagonal? It looks like there may
be room for a glass rear window. |
| A) This all depends on what type
glass window, the Robbins window hits the standard M2 Sport
diagonal(s). If it's an M2 top or one of the tops that use a window
the same size as the OEM all M2 bars including the Hard Core will
work. BUT if it's a Robbins, Duetto or one of the tops with a larger
than OEM glass, special considerations have to be made concerning
the M2 Sport diagonal(s) and the Hard Core will not work at all. We
can special order a bar with special diagonal braced bars for the
Robbins applications, 1 inch up the rear brace. Our stock numbers
for these bars are TM-506-DDG or TM-506-G. |
| Q) Just how safe is a Miata
WITHOUT a roll bar?
A) Well, by U.S. law it is a
requirement that the windshield frame on a convertible be able to
support the weight of the car. That means that if you gently
raise the Miata, flip it over and gently set it down, the windshield
frame won't collapse. |
Get it going at speed - throw it up in the air and slam it back down
on the windshield - now that is a different story. We have seen
the results of a Miata in a single rollover (soft roll) come out pretty
good. Sure the windshield was bent - but the people were either unhurt
(seatbelt engaged at the time of the rollover) or only had minor
injuries. Roll it more than that - the windshield gets pretty
flat.
Now the question is - who ever plans on rolling their Miata in the
first place? Then if they do - only rolling it over once?
| Q) How can I get my roll bar
installed?
A) First off have you considered doing the
install yourself. It is easier than most people think - it just
takes most of a day and the help of a friend. On our site we have
complete installation information including a complete install
operation in
photos. |
Also - on the Team Miata Resources page is a listing of Miata Clubs around
the country. Find one in your area and contact them. They can recommend
a good place to have it installed or perhaps someone in the club would
be willing to help you install it on a weekend.
If all that fails, check out the Yellow pages of the phone book and
look under Automobile - Performance Shops. Those are usually the types
of shop that are familiar with installing roll bars.
If you do have it installed by a shop - don't let them charge you
more than 4 or 5 hours of labor. My guy only takes 4 hours to do
one.
| Q) If I already had a Hard
Dog Sport install and want to replace it with a Core - are the holes
the same or will they have to be re-drilled?
A) Yes -
The bolt patterns in the foot plates are the same, so
the front plates will be pretty close but the rear plates will not
be in the same place so they must be re-drilled.
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| Q) Is there a hard top short
version of the '99+ Core available?
A) NO, the Hard Core
for the '99+ cannot be made in a short version to meet SCCA SOLO I
specs AND accommodate the glass rear window. We offer a latch kit to
replace the hard top side latches ($75.00) that will allow the hard
top to work with the '99 Hard Core. We could custom build a '99
Sport Bar from 1.75" tubing but the bend in the rear legs does not
meet SOLO I
requirements.
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| Q) How much do the roll
bars weigh?
A) The approximate weights are as
follows:
| Boss
Frog |
55 pounds
approximately (For both the Double Hoop and the ClearView) |
| Hard Bar |
20
pounds. |
| Hard Bar
Sport |
35-45 pounds
depending on options (diagonal, harness bar) |
|
Hard Dog Deuce |
45 pounds
depending on options |
| Hard Dog
Extreme |
55 pounds
approximately |
| Hard Core |
55 pounds (the 99
is a little lighter because of the harness tabs instead of
harness bar and the 99 Sport has shorter rear braces) |
| Roll Cage |
70 pounds
approximately | |
| Q) Does the cross bar that
goes between the seat belt towers have to be removed for any of the
bars?
A) No - the bar is removed during installation,
then it is replaced after the bar is installed. |
| Q) What is the difference
between the Hard
Dog Sport and the Hard Dog
Core?
A) The main difference is the Sport is made of
1½ inch stainless steel while the Core is made from 1¾ inch
stainless steel. With the Sport you also have the option to add the
diagonal and cross bars while on the Core these are standard. The Extreme
is also made of 1¾ inch stainless steel just like the Core |
| Q) Does the boot need to be
modified to work properly with the roll bars?
A) With
the Hard Bar -
NO, it doesn't have any of the back bracing that interferes with the
boot. With the Boss
Frogs, HD Sport
and HD Core -
Yes. The bracing going toward the rear of the car interferes
with the boot. You have two options, you can either take the boot to a car upholstery shop to
have it modified to be able to go around back bracing bars on the
roll bar. Upholstery shops that specialize in car upholstery,
usually don't have any problems making the modification. OR, you can
also do it yourself. Click for
details |
| Q) Will my window lay flat
after I install the roll bar?
A) For the Hard Bar - YES.
For the Boss Frog, HD Sport or the HDCore - Sort of.
The window part
(clear part) will lay flat but the rest of the flap will sort of
bend gently over the back braces. On the bars that have the harness
bar (like the HD Core) the window the zipper lines neatly up with
the harness bar and runs half of it's vertical length on the rear
support legs. That is why we offer the No-Zip Windows
Protector. It solves this problem
completely. |
| Q) Will the diagonal bar for
the Sport (optional) or the HD Core obstruct my rear
view?
A) Yes and No - it depends on how tall you all. If
you are tall, the single diagonal bar will go right through your
field of vision as you look through your rear view mirror. It isn’t
bad - just a little annoying. You get use to it in short time. BUT -
there is also the new Double Diagonal version of both bars
available. Depending on how tall you are, there will be with no
obstruction or the cross members may cut off the view of the outer
edges of the rearview mirror. Or from about 1" in on either
side of the mirror diagonally down to the corners, almost a framing
effect. However is your are looking for a truly unobstructed read
view - you may want to look at the Boss Frog
ClearView. |
| Q) What is the difference
between the Hard Core and the Hard Core Short (Hard Top) bars (for
M1 cars only)?
A) The short version,
available for use with the hard top, is about ½ inch shorter and sets back a little. The big
problem with the hard top working with the bar is the location of
the side latches for hard top. The set back is to accommodate those
latches. Essentially the short version is a Sport Bar made of 1¾
inch steel. |
| Q) How do the '99+ (M2) HD Bars work
with the factory glass windows?
A) Perfectly. The
diagonal bars are moved forward a bit to accommodate the glass
window. However, in order for the wind blocker to be able to still
flip up and down the ends need to be trimmed or the entire wind
blocker unmounted and moved forward about an
inch. |
| Q) Will a '99+ (M2) bar work with
an older Miata equipped with a Robbin's Top glass rear
window?
A) YES - the glass window in the Robbin's Top
just barely fits even though the OEM glass in the '99 is a bit
smaller. Your only option then is to install a Hard Bar. It can
accommodate any top with a glass rear window.
Another
option if you do have a '90-'97(M1) Miata and want a roll bar and a
top with a glass rear window, you can do it by replacing you current
top with a '99+(M2) Factory top, frame and window. It fits the older
models
perfectly.
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| Q) Does any part of my Miata
have to be cut?
A) Yes - you will need to cut and trim
some of the paneling for the seat belt tower for the Bar, Sport and
Core. For the HD Sport and HD Core you will also
have to cut the carpet and cut some of the metal on each side of the
gas tank. The metal cut will not show after you are finished. |
| Q) I see there is a leather
option for both the HD Bar and
HD Sport -
can I add it later?
A) Yes you can add it later - It has
a about a 1/4 inch of padding and can be installed given a little
bit of time. It attaches with Velcro. However, for the HD Sport,
it is easier to do it when the bar is ordered. Some of the
leather needs cut and trimmed to go around the rear braces.
This is usually best done by the factory or an upholster. |
| Q) I've heard there are some
problems with the Hard Dogs. One is with the alignment and proper
fit and the other is with the seat belt. What's the deal?
A)
Simple - neither is a problem. Our installer has installed well over
200 Hard Dogs and there hasn't been a problem with a single seat
belt or alignment. Of course he has the advantage of installing the
bars properly.
Some people (I'd guess perhaps about 10-percent) can't or won't
follow the instructions. Of course then when something doesn't work
they blame the bar. We see this most of the time with people who
only jack up one side of their Miata instead of the entire rear end
up - as the instructions clearly state. If only one side of the
Miata is lifted during the install, the body gets twisted - just a
little - but it will be enough so the holes don't line up. Of course
these people then say - the bar is bent or poorly built.
The other is the seat belt (very rare). There is a bit of
trimming that must be done to the hole where the seat belt comes out
(a template is included in the instructions). This allows the belt
to be routed around the bar and it then works just fine - that of
course assumes that you reinstalled the seat belt take-up reel
properly.
In my Miata, and every other one I've sat in, the seat belt works
freely. In fact I have more problems with the seat belts in my
new Toyota 4Runner then I do in my Miata with the Hard Dog. |
| Q) Which is the best roll bar
for me?
A) That depends on you and your driving habits.
If you drive hard and on the edge (have a lot of tickets),
autocross a lot and just plan push your Miata to its limits - then
the Hard
Core or Boss
Frog ClearView is the roll bar for you. They are also the
strongest and sturdiest of all the roll bars and meet Sport
Car Club of America specifications for use on the track.
If you want the look of the Double Hoop Style Bar but want a bar
that meets Sport Car Club of America Solo I specifications, then you
may want to look at the
Boss
Frog Double Hoop Roll Bar
If you don’t necessarily push your Miata hard and are just
looking for an extra measure of protection, don’t want your rear
view obstructed, or your friend says, "I’m not getting in that car
unless it has a roll bar!" - then the Hard Dog Sport Bar
may fit your needs.
If you want the look of a double hump style bar, but demand some
level of protection in a roll over then check out the Hard Dog
Extreme or HD Deuce.
If you are just looking for a little extra protection, and don’t
feel you need a full roll bar, yet want a small measure of safety
that other style bars don’t offer. Then perhaps the Hard Bar
is the way to go. |
A NOTE OF CAUTION - No roll bar, or
even a roll cage, is a substitute for good and safe driving habits.
NEVER feel that just because you have a roll bar you are "safe" and can
push the limits of your Miata further than you would otherwise. Even the
best roll bar can collapse if the accident is severe enough.
Miata Performance Driving School
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